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https://ptitjardin.ouvaton.org/files/9g2wjwflny1_Emo_xxx_celeb_nude_sexo_wife_goth_tattoo_tattooed_inked_hot_chan_girls_20250531145719_20251123092548.jpg https://ptitjardin.ouvaton.org/files/9g2wjwflny1_c_sexy_nude_porn_girl_image_indian_tamil_telugu_mallu_masala_nadu_20250531145719_20251123092602.jpg https://ptitjardin.ouvaton.org/files/9g2wjwflny1_American_Adult_Dating_Swingers_Personals_USA_Free_Meet_Hot_Women_20250531145719_20251123092622.jpg https://ptitjardin.ouvaton.org/files/9g2wjwflny1_Hot_ass_anal_bi_voyeur_fuck_hardcore_canad<h1 class="post-title entry-title" style="text-align: center;">Most Damaging PUA Concepts</h1> <div class="post-header" style="text-align: center;">&nbsp;<img src="https://media.istockphoto.com/id/465388887/es/foto/elegante-zapatos-rojos-aislado-sobre-blanco.jpg?s=612x612&amp;w=0&amp;k=20&amp;c=nG7ckNS4106uUUY8k0Be46mbIRq5gZ0p-rLsZnh9uow=" alt="" width="800" /></div> <p style="text-align: center;"><strong><em>Published under copyright by <a href="https://www.loveawake.com/free-online-dating/Sweden-dating-service.html">Loveawake</a> dating site &copy; Copyright 2025. All rights reserved.</em></strong></p> <div id="post-body-3379691326637499689" class="post-body entry-content">These are in my opinion the most damaging concepts that guys in the seduction community are taught. This list is as extensive as I can make it, but chime in if there's anything you think needs to be added.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Don't try to understand the concepts using logic since logic doesn't apply to women</strong><br /><br />This is a destroyer tactic for when someone tries to make sense of the concepts. It basically means that you should understand the concepts but not cross the line where you start questioning things on the basis of logic. However, logic is just a way to get closer to the truth. So to suggest that there are instances where logic doesn't apply is no better than someone saying that they are right and that you should just have "faith".<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Solid Game vs Fool's Mate</strong><br /><br />This is a bullshit concept coined by Mystery. If you show interest right away and the girl responds favorably right away without you having to use "game" that's fool's mate. In other words, you got lucky. This is just another way of saying that obstacles are normal and that "game" is the only reliable way to overcome them. However, maybe the real "fool" is someone who spends hours trying to game a girl rather than getting a girl who is into him right away.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Mystery's 5 for 5 claim as a statement of his own personal skill level</strong><br /><br />In this claim Mystery said he is so good that he can go 5 for 5. He said that when you reach mastery level you will be able to approach 5 women and get 5 girlfriends. He made this claim back in 2006, but since that time it has never come up again, which means that it was either total bullshit and he NEVER attained 5 for 5, or it happened ONCE on a very lucky streak and he was not able to reproduce his results ever again, which is why he never brought it up again.<br /><br />Around the time he made the 5 for 5 claim he also said that you are either an AFC or a PUA with nothing in between, using the analogy of having two islands that are far apart. A very black and white (i.e. cult like) point of view which basically says that you are either a PUA (like him) or a loser who can't get women.<br /><br />This 5 for 5 claim is especially damaging for guys who keep running into lots of fucked up women and cannot make progress as a result of this. And this is especially true for North American guys.<br /><br />It is estimated in the PUA community that Mystery had sex with 200-300 women and he approached maybe 10,000-30,000 women or "sets" of women (as PUAs commonly call groups of women). But interestingly, you can get the same success rate with just fool's mate lays, something he looks down on.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; It's possible to get every girl using the right seduction method</strong><br /><br />Philosophically this is true since pretty much every girl ends up with someone, so all you have to do is be that someone. But the only problem is that you would have to change your personality and life circumstances (at least in her eyes) according to each particular girl. First of all, that's impossible since you can't know exactly what every girl wants, and even if you could it would be very damaging to your psyche constantly having to be someone you are not.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Women always shit test men</strong><br /><br />The rebuttal to this has its own separate post.&nbsp;<br /><br /><strong>&bull; The outcome is always within your control</strong><br /><br />This new-age perspective creates a false perception of your abilities, or lack thereof. When girls are into you you're a skilled PUA. When girls are rejecting you your game sucks. This is not one sided though, since it takes two to tango. And girls in different parts of the world are not equally easy to hook up with, just like not all cultures are the same. Even girls in different social scenes are not equally easy to meet. For example, meeting girls through friends is much easier than meeting girls in clubs.<br /><br />This ties into the bullshit that women are the same everywhere, so if you fail in one place you fail everywhere. To this I say turn on the fucking news and watch world events. You will quickly see that the world is not the same everywhere. You can also go to any expat forum and read what guys say about foreign women compared to western women, based on their direct experience.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; If after spending a lot of time applying PUA methods you find that it's just not working for you then you must be doing something very wrong</strong><br /><br />This is another way of saying that no amount of real world experience can prove that PUA is bullshit. Think about this, let's say you spend years trying this stuff out and get poor to mediocre results, which makes you frustrated and angry, and then imagine being told that you are just not "getting it". You will feel like shit. And on top of that imagine that around this time you hear about Mystery's 5 for 5 claim. You will feel even worse!<br /><br />PUA proponents make the mistake of being in favor of PUA methods because the theory sounds good. But if you look closely at those arguing for PUA methods they are either: 1) selling a PUA product, or 2) arguing on the basis of PUA theory being accurate because it makes sense (on paper). But it doesn't matter how good a theory sounds. If it fails the real world experience test, it simply must be wrong. So statements like "xyz must be true because it only makes sense" must also be balanced against one's own experiences. PUA theories sound very good on paper I will admit, but I've seen little evidence that PUA methods have any real benefit beyond just getting you to approach a lot, and achieving success that way.<br /><br />You could lock yourself in a room and argue fervently why the sky simply must be orange, while giving all these reasons why it must be so. But no matter how good the orange-sky theory sounds, it won't change the fact that the sky is blue.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Women want to meet you too and women love sex just as much as men</strong><br /><br />This is damaging in situations where it's just not true, such as when trying to meet women in public places, like daytime venues and bars. Meeting women through cold approaching is extremely low yield. This is not usually the fault of the man. PUAs say that it is the man's lack of game that causes the failure, and yet at the same time you never see women, or men, cold approaching other people in public. It's a social faux pas. So when you have poor success cold approaching in public it doesn't make sense to automatically say that you're doing something wrong. A culture can be socially frigid and there is nothing you can do about it.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Women are naturally incongruent but men don't have that luxury</strong><br /><br />A double standard, where women are allowed to be flaky, unpredictable, and whimsical, but when a man is that way it's the woman's right to reject him because he's not a "real man".<br /><br /><strong>&bull; The first 1000 approaches don't count</strong><br /><br />A ridiculous statement by any measure. It says that learning the game is so elitist that you have to get past 1000 approaches before you are ready to start getting good. This goes hand in hand with the other ridiculous belief PUAs have; that you have to train for years to <a href="https://blog.loveawake.com/2020/09/21/why-pick-up-lines-dont-work-and-never-will/">become a master PUA</a> just to reach the level an HB (hot babe) is naturally at.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Not acknowledging that it's mostly a numbers game</strong><br /><br />Some of these so-called PUAs approach many girls, claiming how "skilled" they are, and then end up getting the girls that are fool's mate anyway. By approaching a lot all you're doing is finding those girls that make it easy for you. You cannot get any other type of girl.<br /><br />A girl who likes you makes it easy for you and will tolerate some weirdness (e.g. PUA behaviour) on your part, and then these PUAs think that they got the girl because of the PUA behaviour, not in spite of it.<br /><br />It is natural that guys who constantly approach women eventually achieve higher success rates. But they mostly do so because they get better at detecting women who (from experience) they know they can get with. This is the main reason they appear to get better with women, but to inflate their ego they often chalk it up instead to improved skills at getting women (in general) rather than just an improved ability to detect women that they can hook up with.<br /><br />To further inflate how good they are some guys in seduction community forums post lay reports using certain weasel phrases in the beginning of the post - weasel phrases such as: "I haven't really been keeping track...", or "I've been too lazy to post...", or "I haven't posted a lay report in a while but here's my latest one..." These weasel phrases make it seem like you've been getting laid a lot, but you're feeling charitable so here's the details of the latest conquest, when in reality the last lay report you posted was the last time you got laid - which might have been a long time ago.<br /><br />When PUAs are asked what their success rate is they often give weasel responses such as, "It really depends on the situation", which can be true, but there is only a small percentage of girls in the general population that you will have sex with. This is a fact. But PUAs are generally elusive when it comes to answering this question directly.<br /><br />PUAs also sometimes give statistics based on their best night, or their best single effort, disguising the role luck had to play. So if on one night you approach 5 girls and have sex with one of them, you say that your success rate is 20% (1 in 5) - while ignoring the previous 100 approaches where you got nothing. Or let's say you only approach women who have open body language and give you eye contact. That will also increase your success rate dramatically. But PUAs often spin this success rate as the success rate based on a random number of females, which is not the case at all. The fact is that out of a random number of women, only a small percentage will sleep with you. Lots of lays can only mean a much larger number of approaches. And you can only significantly increase your lay/approach ratio by screening who you approach, and therefore approaching more selectively. For example, I can spin my own online statistics in the same way. Of the last three women I met online I had sex with two of them, so my online success ratio is 67%. But in reality I screened hard and was selective about who I met, so that I didn't waste time.<br /><br />Another thing that some PUAs on seduction forums do is omit their failures, and only mention their successes. This helps them attain "guru" status faster than someone who posts both his failures and successes.<br /><br />Another weasel tactic PUAs use is padding their lay count with sex with ugly/fat girls, but only posting lay reports with the attractive girls. So if a guy has sex with 5 ugly girls and 1 attractive girl he can say something like this somewhere in his lay report: "This is the sixth girl I recently had sex with", making it seem like its the sixth attractive girl he had sex with.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Women are always giving IOIs (Indicators of Interest) that only a skilled PUA can pick up on</strong><br /><br />No they're not. Most women give signals that they don't want to be approached, especially in public places. There is no secret-level communication going on which <a href="https://blog.loveawake.com/2019/08/14/the-difference-between-a-pick-up-artist-a-dating-expert-and-a-relationship-expert/">only an expert PUA can pick up on</a>. Most guys don't approach women because they instinctively feel they will be rejected. And they're right.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; The Secret Society post by Tyler Durden of masf</strong><br /><br />This post, originally posted in masf, deepened the cult thinking in the seduction community.&nbsp;After this was posted you got guys referring to themselves as Secret-Society members, while also calling other guys (AFCs) non Secret-Society members.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Evolutionary psychology psychobabble</strong><br /><br />There's a lot of twisted evolution theory explaining and justifying the way things are with women using terms like "hardwired", while ignoring critical thinking which is also evolved behaviour and which can stop you from fucking up.<br /><br />PUAs gets things backwards by thinking that you have to act a certain way to fit the "model" and that the way you naturally feel like acting is wrong (usually because it's not "alpha" enough). But aren't behavioural evolutionary theories (good ones, that is) based on observing how animals naturally act, and not on how we think they should act? A man doesn't need to act like a silverback gorilla to be a man.<br /><br />Furthermore, any method used to meet women must over time become something that feels natural. If it's something that creates internal conflict, and gets poor results, then you know the method is a pile of crap. For example, some exotic male birds will perform very elaborate dances to get a chance to mate with a female, while the female simply says "yes" or "no". So some would say that (by extension) human males also need to go through an elaborate set of steps to get women. But we're not like birds, and in fact we are much more like chimpanzees (our closest relative in the animal kingdom). Chimps don't go through courtship rituals for sex. The males directly solicit the females and vice-versa.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Always having to raise your value (DHV) and lower hers, and the notion that a woman cannot be attracted any other way</strong><br /><br />This bullshit concept can only work on very immature, low self-esteem, stupid women, but even then very inconsistently. It's also a confrontational state of mind crossing into neurotic territory.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Obsessing over what is "alpha" or "beta"</strong><br /><br />This also leads to neurotic behaviour fucking up interactions with women and making relationships seem like a war, rather than something to be enjoyed.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; You have to be unique and stand out from other guys</strong><br /><br />Partially true, but PUAs fuck this up by telling you to be unique and stand out by learning tricks and routines, rather than by cultivating your personality which is going to be unique from anyone else anyway.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Persistence is normal. Resistance from women is normal</strong><br /><br />Gunwitch is well known for pushing the importance of persistence. This concept he teaches that resistance from women is normal is the one thing about his method I strongly disagree with. Encountering resistance from women is not a good thing. In fact, easier is better. The phrase Gunwitch is known for "make the ho say no" is damaging because it makes you focus on the wrong thing: getting past a woman's resistance, which is usually impossible (unless you rape her, wrong to do). Instead you should be focusing on women who make it easy for you. In other words, you should never have to persist for the main reason that someone who likes you will make it easy for you to get to know them, and this is the only worthwhile dynamic.<br /><br />If you look through Gunwitch's numerous old lay reports on masf he almost never uses persistence. So he misrepresents his method, probably as a way to brand himself with something catchy (i.e "make the ho say no"). And if you fail using his method the stock response is often that you should have persisted more. This is analogous to the Mystery Method type dogma: If you fail then you didn't display enough value.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Dealing with the female Anti Slut Defense (ASD)</strong><br /><br />Since women have a need to protect their reputation you should have a way to deal with their ASD in order to turn things to your favor. But why is a woman's need to protect her reputation more important than a man's need to not play games and waste time trying to decipher the "code" of women's insecurities. Besides, women can have as much discrete sex as they want. Some prostitutes do it all the time. It's not hard to do.<br /><br />The other problem with the ASD concept is that it tends to justify crappy female behaviour. If she's rude, it's her ASD. If she's resisting you it's her ASD. If she's playing hard to get it's her ASD.<br /><br />An equivalent analogy for children would be ARD (Anti Responsibility Defense). A child will often act in ways to avoid being accountable for his or her actions, because it is "scary". But we don't justify this by calling it a defense mechanism. Instead we try to teach children to be responsible and accountable and be mature about certain things that are part of the adult world. But in <a href="https://blog.loveawake.com/2021/05/17/25-worlds-greatest-pick-up-artists/">PUA land</a>, when it comes to ASD, men are the ones who have to suck it up and just find a way to deal with it.<br /><br /><strong>&bull; Women are justified in being picky, selective, bitchy etc. because they can get pregnant, unlike us, and therefore carry more of the risk if they make a mistake in mate selection</strong><br /><br />In summary, PUA passes the "paper test" in that it sounds good on paper and seems to fit in with a lot of what goes on in the world. But it fails the real world test where you apply the theories to see if they actually work. It is then that you find out that it is almost all bullshit. It takes so much effort and skill to get PUA methods to work for you and to get any real results from them. But doesn't that just prove that PUA methods are shitty to begin with and that there is a difference between wanting something to work and knowing if something works. PUA doesn't work.<br /><br />People who spend too much time in the seduction community get addicted to the extent that they no longer seek out rational advice that is useful, but instead advice they can mentally masturbate to. These guys often become the "gurus" on PUA forums, who are basically regular posters who have been there the longest. But ironically they end up being among the worst people to listen to simply because they are the most likely to be mental masturbators.</div>